Great Flying Today !!!

[Bo Criss]

So Roger called me this morning and encouraged me to fly. When the boss says fly, you fly! You know what I mean?!!

A full van arrived at the Skyport to nice consistent southern flow with thermals. As we got ready, it got a bit lighter, but still had good promise. I launched first and found some pops, but nothing solid. I took it down the traditional route and found "sucker thermals" all along the way. I got a touch of something at the antennas but not enough to stay.

The promised thermal was on the round house spine half way down to the water tank. Light lift, but generally consistent. It would only take me so far up. Irene joined me and we played teeter toter hoping for the good one that would take us up. Eventually Roger came in and showed me the mother load. I climbed about 600 ft above the round house and decided to exchange the altitude for a glide to the Holy Hills. It was working there, so after tanking up a bit, I worked on over to the Tit. Again good lift and the R&R was calling me with Kevin 600 feet above the R&R on top of the world. The spine was slowly producing and by the time I got to the rocky section, the air was booming.

About that time an out of towner named Dave launched, S-turned near launch, then did a tight circle back into the bushes right below/beside launch. Normally when an out of towner "crashes" you can blame it on not knowing the site, and therefore feel sorry for them. Not the case with Dave. Dave was scarring everyone on saturday with turns really close to launch and the powerlines before shining all the bushes below Alternator. I didn't mind giving him a piece of my mind that day. DON'T fly close to the terrain. You're from out of town and it would be cool to play it conservative.

The problem with crashing is, it ruins everyone else's day. They feel obligated to pick you out of the bushes, call a helicopter, close launch, etc. Sometimes crashes occur and it's a fluke, wind came up, there was a snag in your lines, etc. But flying deep, low and close to the terrain is just asking for it. If you want to brake your body, go do it somewhere else !!!! I explained all of this to Dave 2 days ago, so when I saw him inflate his glider today at Skyport, I said to myself, watch this guy. Sure enough, dumb stupid decisions !!!! And yeah he's in the bushes. Jim Maddox was there to help him and Dave was fine physically. Mentally he's way off his game. It upsets me when an out-of-towner screws it up for the local pilots. When he gets a warning from a local instructor and then does something STUPID two days later, it's just uncalled for. My vote is Dave gets to fly the Training Hill, but not the SB mountains for a year.

Anyways, back to the good conditions. Kevin and I shared some great circles 600 over the R&R before heading to LaCumbre. We arrived lower in the saddle than we wanted, but the day was working. I climbed 700 over LaCumbre Peak as Kevin ran to the front of Cathedral and regained his epic altitude.

Work guilt set in and I decided to take my altitude back to the Thermal Factory and out to Parma. Great day of flying!!!

[Dean S]

Great to hear about the good flights today, not so great to hear about the pilot in the bushes!Sure, this happens from time to time and it's part of flying, however, this guy needs to be addressed and here's why:

I was within ear shot on Saturday when Bo gave Dave, the pilot in question, a very firm piece of his mind regarding flying too close to the terrain. In fact, Bo pretty much told him if he ever saw him flying that close to the terrain again in SB there would be consequences. Since I didn't witness this pilot flying dangerously close to the terrain I questioned Bo as to whether or not he was too hard on him. After hearing about today's incident with the very same pilot, I'm very glad Bo was as hard as he was with him, he obviously had it coming. What do we do about a visiting pilot that has been warned and blatantly disregards local rules/restrictions, potentially jeopardizing our ability to fly our beautiful sites?

I agree with Bo, he shouldn’t be able to fly the mountain sites for some amount of time. If he wants to ridge soar in tight, restrict him to Bates, or something - he’s obviously reckless! If I remember correctly, I introduced myself to him the other day and I believe he said his name was Dave Osborne from Canada, does anyone know this pilot?

[andy]

I met a guy from Canada a couple of years ago that comes down here in the winter to fly, as his business is guiding kayaking in Canada in the Summer. He seemed to be a good responsible pilot, and I can't remember his name, although it may be in the archives, I haven't checked. He was about 5'8", muscular, with Dark hair/skin.

I think though this activity is not covered by the USPHA insurance, unless they buy into it. So they should not be allowed to fly from the sanctioned launches. Unless they get checked out by an instructor, and signed off, and pay the fees.

Different topic, How do you guys find the thermal activity over the burn area? I have thought it would be smaller/shorter lasting thermals due to less air retention of brush...etc. Or maybe more heating equaling more draw from the canyon?

Any Thoughts?

Andy

[Robb]

Dave was flying the yellow Nova Artax Saturday, and flew for over 2 hours in the light conditions. He and I spent quite a bit of time near each other by launch, west bowl, and cathederal, however we couldn't manage to thermal together. I thought it was me, but maybe not.

We spent some time in the LZ, and when he asked about the "guy that went in the ravine" I discovered he didn't have his radio on while flying. I politely informed him we normally won't take someone up the hill if he doesn't have both a radio and a cell phone with local numbers. I told him it ruins everyones day when you can't communicate with someone who's had an issue. I thought he was listening, but he didn't listen to Bo, so maybe not.

It's our job, as the hosts, to make sure anyone we don't personally know has experience at our sites, gets a briefing on launch and the LZ, has an operating radio on the appropriate frequency, and has a cell phone with local numbers. If you're not sure, be sure: tell him again, or ask the others in the van about him. It's never fun when you spend your flying day scrambling around in the bushes digging somebodies gear out or worse.

I set up next to Dave, I'd never seen him before, and I didn't check on his radio or phone. That's my failure, and I know better after chasing some knucklehead around the Ojai valley the day Mini Mike had his incident.

Now, if they get the full intro, and still disreguard what we've told them, well, that's what a hook knife is for. oops,idon'twanttosaythat ***//<<<deldeldeldeldeldeldamm,where'sthateditkey??

[gary begley]

Here we are again, at the same old question. What to do with the foolish pilot that does not listen to the locals? It is really all quite simple, some people will fail the IQ test no matter what knowledge they gain from the more experienced pilots at the local area. Such is life. But on a positive note, the majority of people do arrive to a new flying site and seek local knowledge before flying in a new area which is only a bonus to their flying performance. On the idea that we can fully control a mountain and who flies off of it, is impossible. If one a-hole is foolish and shows up at the flying site once a year and almost causes himself serious injury and does not listen to others for advice, statistically, we are not doing too badly considering how many people fly every year in Santa Barbara. In the paragliding world, I have witnessed much criticism amongst pilots usually in private, not spoken to the person directly about flying performance; watching many of the so-called experts not practicing what they preach or condesend. It is interesting to me that we always worry about our day being ruined or our site being shut down due to somebody else, just remember we all need to be accountable for our own actions and flying...because it could just as easily be one of us. Accidents dont always happen to the foolish, non-local pilots.

Gary Begley
http://www.garybegleysports.com

[Ramey]

The question posed is how to diminish problems of unprepared pilots flying local mountains.

I don't expect a definitive solution will be found for this, But perhaps implementing the following suggestions might help.

Most or Many visiting pilots need a lift up the hill. For paragliders there is a handy service for this which charges an established fee. In addition to the fee, the providers of this service could insist upon:

a) that the pilot has a 2 M radio.
b) a copy of the local rules: s-curves at launch, round house rules, min altitude for making run to the beach, etc. A supply of fliers could be maintained in the vehicles used get pilots up the hill.
c) a current USHPA card with the appropriate rating.

otherwise, no ride.

Again, not perfect, but would yield an improvement without being toooo intrusive.

Robert Ramey

P.S. Unfortunately, this wouldn't work for hang glider pilots since:
a) hanglider pilots are too cheap pay for a ride
b) we can rely on intrinsic sex appeal to attract a steady stream of "drivers".

Perhaps the problem isn't quite as bad for hanggliders since:
a) there are less of us
b) one look a parma landing area dissuades most out of towners from even launching.

[Dean S]

Sure Gary, it's possible for all of us to find ourselves in the bushes, or worse, and we have to accept that. Hell, I got rotored down range a few years back and found myself in the bushes too; thank god for the dense Manzanita. I make flying choices too that others may question. I like to think they are informed choices and reflect a lot of experience, but these choices are very subjective and may not appear sensible to others. I think we also understand that there will always be a certain amount of pilots, visiting or not, who don't always use good judgment - nobody is perfect. Just because the majority of pilots fly here incident free doesn't mean we shouldn't intervene when the exceptional one rolls through - should we?

I had a discussion with Bo, and he reminded me which glider the pilot was flying; yellow and black Nova Artax and without a 2-way radio. As I was recalling Saturday I too remember seeing this pilot in a situation that I personally would avoid at all costs. As I was taking pictures on launch I watched this pilot flying erratically in front of launch on the opposite side of the road deep in the ravine. He wasn't more than 50 feet over the bushes and I remember thinking to myself that he may not make it out of the ravine. It would be one thing if he had gotten low, realized his predicament, and headed out of the ravine. Instead, he continued to circle and buzz the bushes. I remembered this because I shouted to Robb Milley to check this guy out. We both just shook our heads. Either before or after that, Bo witnessed him turning circles dangerously close to launch...hmmm. Sure, we will all find ourselves in situations that we should not be in, and hopefully we all have the good sense to make an adjustment and remove ourselves from danger when possible. There are some that just don't understand the consequences of their actions to themselves and to others that need to be checked. None of us have the time to be the para-police, but here's a guy who's flying dangerously - gets a firm warning, and within 30 seconds of his very next flight circles in too close to Skyport launch and plows in pretty hard. He's not a local, doesn't belong to our local club, doesn't contribute to our local pilot community, and doesn't listen to our local instructors. If I do the math correctly + x - = LIABILITY!

Gary, I'll admit, my attitude is fairly in line with yours as to accepting that the good outweighs the bad and generally things will happen despite what you try to do to prevent them - that's life. I have a feeling though, if you had witnessed what Bo, Robb, and I had as to this particular pilot, you might be feeling the same way we do. I really think this guy needs to be spoken to.

I agree with Rameys suggestion of making sure unfamiliar pilots have the basics. I was also under the impression that all pilots either had to be a member of the local club or pay a day use fee to fly our mountain sites - what happened to that?

[gary begley]

all valid points...but still in the end anyone can get up the mountain and huck his or her carcass of the mountain.Who will regulate the mountain everday?What will you do if the pilot says FU?What then fight, call the police or USHPA? I Agree Dean we should have a talk with anyone who is putting themselves or others in harms way...but that person will still do what they want with info...digest it or discard it.The only thing we can control is our own attitude and that can be the crux for some...so keep sharing your wisdom with others,some will get it, others will not.

[John Fritsche]

This thread is full of info. that's news to me, and I've been flying fairly regularly in SB for the past year now. It has been either a real pain-in-the-ass or impossible for me to get to a club meeting on a Thursday night in SB so far (I live in Lompoc, and I have a class Thursday nights for the next four months). I honestly did not know that I was supposed to be a dues-paying club member to fly in SB. Is this the case? I'll gladly join the club when I can get some paperwork and discover who to pay. I've also thought that all of the sites, except for the training hill, were ultimately unregulated. Do we actually have agreements with the NFS and parks department regarding who can fly when and where? Wilcox is the only place I've seen anything posted.
So, who does have the authority to stop anyone from flying, and aside from denying them a ride up the hill, how do you plan to assert this authority?
On another note, as a biwingual guy, I would like to have seen a smiley-face thingie next to the crack about hg pilots being too cheap to pay for a ride (I'm not, but you guys don't have roof racks anyway) and too chicken to land at Parma (I'm not).
Matt Hendershot and I have appreciated the friendliness and cooperation of the pg pilots on launch at Alternator this winter. If you didn't know it, we're the two guys you keep seeing up there. Matt's got the orange glider; mine is yellow and blue. I hope we all continue to get along!

[John Fritsche]

OK, a quick reply to my own post...I see the membership form and payment info. on the website. I'm on it.

[Dean S]

John, the comment about all pilots flying SB sites needing to be either a club member or pay a daily fee was more of a question I was posing. Until recently I was unaware of this policy too, but it is being implemented at each of the league events I've been holding in SB, yet not at any other time???? That comment was my way of asking that the policy that is being subjected to league participants should be consistent and be applied all other pilots as well, or not at all.

[Robb]

To be absoutly clear to all our members and any others who may be reading: No club or organization charges a fee for foot-launched flying activities at Skyport (NFS administered land) or Alternator (NFS land)

If anyone was asked to pay a fee, and mis-interpreted the reasons, please speak to whomever requested the fee - it most likely was for joining the club, ride to launch, use of the LZ, or some other acceptable use fee. For example, site insurance is provided by one of the local clubs for some of our local sites. Our national organization requires that we report on site usage (pilots/year) and visitors may be asked to defray some of the administrative costs, or to support the local club.

We never, ever, charge a fee for activities that take place on National Forest Service lands.

[DBLD]

Let me chime in about the ride thing. It is customary for pg's to chip in for gas when they are with pg's. Hangies on the other hand share the load. It's not so much that we are too cheap, it's just customary. I have often offered to pay and been refused, sometimes I've forced it on the bastard, and I have been offered often and I almost always refuse (depends on my economic state). We generally thank each other and make sure that retrieve is provided. If you get a call at 5 pm you gladly drive to the desert to get your buddy because you know he would do it for you. On longer trips (Pine) we share the gas because a tank of gas gets downded like a cold beer. Back in the day, Topa Chase the old green Dodge van, Tom would extract a dollar per thousand feet (3 bucks to the Eliminator, 4 bucks to the Brotherhood) per pilot. I have paid to ride on top of a stack of 13 gliders (memorable ride with EJ). The commercial ventures that offer rides to launch for pg's are great and probably only break even with current gas prices. My hat is off to them and I gladly pay. Seeing a confused pg pilot that just got a ride with the hangies with a crisp Lincoln still in his hand, PRICELESS

DD