Calling out weather from below. Helpful or Not?

Past, present, and future flights, meeting times & places, theory.

Moderator: Moderation Team

Calling out weather from below. Helpful or Not?

Postby gracecab » Wed Nov 12, 2014 4:23 pm

Is it ever helpful to pilots coming down for landings, to hear a call from the LZ on the weather from someone there on the ground? Or does it 'muddy the waters'

I was done with a flight from EJ to Parma Park last Saturday, and upon landing in almost calm wind, I figured I would call out that information to the couple of pilots coming in not too far after me. "Wind is pretty calm in the LZ" was my call at the time. Maybe that wasn't specific enough.

I don't know if it was helpful, if there is a protocol, or if it only confuses things, as pilots may or may not appreciate hearing info that may or may not be correct by the time they are literally coming down to land.

Then I read a Safety/Accident report on the USHPA site, which gave a pie chart of the accident-during-flight breakdown for 2010, and the most accident's happening (that year at least) were on Approach.

Thinking of Parmas 'technical' landing setup, and the many things to consider coming in to land there, I wonder if we help (or could help more?) by 'guiding' eachother... staying at the landing zone longer after landing, and being there just to kind of oversee anyone coming down. But, it's the last thing I want to do is give uninformed, inaccurate or untimely information and throw anyones landing off...

2010 phase of flight.JPG


I did read this in the SB Airspace instructions on another SB website: 9. When at the landing area, actively assist other incoming pilots with condition reports and if necessary notify other beach users of the incoming traffic and probable traffic pattern. To be an effective assistance, pilots may need to use different radio frequencies. so, I take that as some kind of prescedence to 'actively assist'...

Forgive if there's a post on this topic already. Point me there if there's more conversation on this topic at all... Be well, be safe, and live to fly another day.
Chris Ballmer aka gracecab
Ventura, CA
UP Kantega XC2 / Gin Verso
User avatar
gracecab
 
Posts: 125
Joined: Mon Sep 23, 2013 12:56 pm

Re: Calling out weather from below. Helpful or Not?

Postby oj » Wed Nov 12, 2014 7:56 pm

It's always good to hear weather conditions when you're on final approach. Parma is more critical than the T or East Beach which are more predictable. Not only wind conditions but also buoyancy, one day at Parma you'll boat along trying to get down without running out of lz and the next day you come up short. Nice to get info from the folks just ahead of you. I try to do the same for the pilots coming into Ojai from Pine. Conditons can change a lot in the turn-around time and I've always appreciated wind reports when I'm making that glide.
The moment you doubt whether you can fly, you cease forever to be able to do it.- J.M. Barrie, Peter Pan
User avatar
oj
 
Posts: 167
Joined: Fri Jan 27, 2006 1:21 pm
Location: above you

Re: Condition Reports are Helpful

Postby sd » Thu Nov 13, 2014 1:20 am

Gracecab, sounds like you gave an accurate report. I thumped in downwind at Cold Springs School on Saturday thinking it was light from the west when it was actually light from the east down lower on final.

I concur with OJ's comments but will elaborate as I often do...

Generally, you want to give velocity and the direction the wind is coming from. Some examples:
Wind report from Upper Parma, calm to light and variable, favoring from the West South West, but occasionally wafting uphill from the East.
or
Wind Report from Upper Parma, 5 to 8 from the SW.
or
Wind Report from East Beach, light drift from the east over town, but SW crossing the freeway, and 5 to 7 from the SW on the sand.

The velocity part is a subjective assessment. Just give your best guess and don't stress about the accuracy.

If you aren't oriented and not sure of the compass heading the wind is coming from, then improvise with something like,
Wind report from Padaro Beach, blowing onshore at 2 to 3, about 30 degrees off the beach line from Santa Barbara towards Ventura.

We generally prefer to keep the chit chat to a minimum on the shared frequency, but everyone appreciates condition reports. Even if I'm not landing at Parma, I still want to know what it's doing there. It sometimes helps fill in a bigger picture.

Regarding the other radio frequency thing. The schools will sometimes use a dedicated frequency when they need to do a lot of coaching. You can check with Eagle to see what frequency their students are on, then broadcast on both frequencies, the student frequency plus 146.46. If the conditions are switchy, then you want to give an update when you see someone setting up for an approach.

You are correct, most accidents happen on launch and landing, with more on landing because launch is optional but landing is often mandatory. Paragliding has a higher incidence of inflight mishaps compared to other forms of aviation because our wings are tensionally structured and the tension can be lost.

The SCPA no longer exist, but some of their committee reports are listed on the left side of the SCPA home page. You might want to review the Radio Protocol published in 1992 (prior to the SCPA) at
http://scpa.info/committee/radio/protocol.htm
User avatar
sd
 
Posts: 449
Joined: Thu Jan 26, 2006 10:30 pm

Re: Calling out weather from below. Helpful or Not?

Postby gracecab » Thu Nov 13, 2014 8:19 am

Thanks guys. I love the wealth of information both live and archived. The link is great sundownder!

I will be more thoughtful about giving simple weather calls and generally eyes open to the surrounding.

Beeing a noob, I'm super focused on all my own world (probably a good thing ;-) but I expect to take the cues from other more experienced on how and when to be more helpful to the rest of the posse.

:wink:
Chris Ballmer aka gracecab
Ventura, CA
UP Kantega XC2 / Gin Verso
User avatar
gracecab
 
Posts: 125
Joined: Mon Sep 23, 2013 12:56 pm

Re: Calling out weather from below. Helpful or Not?

Postby timobarker » Thu Nov 13, 2014 7:35 pm

I find it helpful to get an update on weather conditions when I'm coming in. One update is fine as long as conditions haven't changed since that update. If I haven't heard an update and want one, I often ask for a pilot in the LZ to give an update. I keep my radio on in the LZ for that purpose. As you're packing up in an LZ and pilots are in the air, I think it's generally a great idea to keep your radio on and close to you so that you can respond to any pilots query.

When giving a conditions update, like OJ and SD said: I like wind velocity estimate, direction and relative bouyancy (in comparison to the day). I might say: "it's blowing SW 7 to 10 and poppy at the LZ. Give yourself space to set up." or It's light and variable and relatively flat, make sure to come in with speed.

Hope that adds or compliments what the experts were saying.
timobarker
 
Posts: 59
Joined: Thu Apr 23, 2009 6:22 pm

Re: Calling out weather from below. Helpful or Not?

Postby gracecab » Wed Dec 03, 2014 2:32 pm

good info, thanks Tim
Chris Ballmer aka gracecab
Ventura, CA
UP Kantega XC2 / Gin Verso
User avatar
gracecab
 
Posts: 125
Joined: Mon Sep 23, 2013 12:56 pm


Return to Flight Discussion



Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 10 guests

cron