SCPA & SBSA Discussion Board

I wanted to separate the LZ discussion from the mid-air collision discussion. Specifically, from Bo's post:

"The other issue that I noticed on Sunday was the increasing wind and how it made it hard to land at the LZ in Parma. St. Mary's is a last resort LZ, avoid landing there if possible, especially with a strong west wind. I know Chad broke his back many years ago because of the rotor on these high wind days. Thinking St. Mary's is a good alternative to Parma is dangerous thinking."

A few days before that fateful Sunday, I landed on the fire road that is straight out from the rock last week in a light east wind. I've always heard it referred to as "three hills" by people that run/mountain bike/ride horses up it. It has a picnic table at the top that survived the fire.

I landed there mostly because I was curious about it and because I'd scoped it out on a few runs through the park on foot. I found it smooth and easy on that day, though I got a few thermic pops coming in.

My feeling about the three hills is pretty positive. The highest "flat" part of the road actually gains a bit of height as you fly towards the ocean, making it a very nice and easy place to set down. If you overshoot that, there are two more chances beyond it before "compression canyon". There is a wide, grassy strip to pack up your glider and a pleasant 15 minute hike down through a canyon and up to the regular LZ. It isn't even ashy on the top despite the recent fire. Hike-wise, I think it is probably shorter than schlepping your wing down from St. Mary's. There are steep canyons on either side, so it is best to land on the top strip(!)

It seems to me that if you can make the rock, you can easily make the three hills as well, even if the normal Parma LZs are out of range.

I was one of the pilots who squeaked into St. Mary's against the strong west wind last weekend and in retrospect, I wish I had simply turned downwind and made for the three hills. I am assuming that you can find smooth air on whichever face of the hills is facing the wind, though I haven't tested this.

Has anyone had any experience counter to this? Is the air trashy in some conditions, say west? Are there other problems landing there?

Micromanager,
I fly a hang glider but it has a comparable glide to an intermediate paraglider at 7.5 to 1. I too have looked at the three hills area many times and have prepared myself to land there but each time made it to lower parma. I would be careful about how you are thinking in that the three hills area would be a bail out while trying to get to Parma instead of your goal LZ. The reason being that if you are using the bail out as the main LZ and don't make the bail out....your screwed. Some times the west comes in and progress gets REAL slow getting there if you are coming from the rock and landing short doesn't look enticing at all. Things do change and you get caught some times as the west came in rather quickly that day so the decision to leave or stay and search for lift needs to be made quickly flying around here. Having Parma as your main LZ will make you leave a bit earlier than if the three hills is exceptable to you and this will keep you with less drama in your flights. With these lower performing wings prudence is best as what others can do doesn't mean it's good for you. If you see the west coming up a bail out to Wilcox or Bates is probably the best alternative to the mountains. I only say this as I've had enough close experiences and flying on the good days is far better than pushing on the bad days.

Thanks Tony.

Those are good points. On my last flight from Skyport, I had what amounted to a mile+ long final into Parma, no turns, just a nail-biting leg where I tried to get my best glide. I ended up landing fine at the edge of compression canyon, but clearly there wasn't much of a margin. I chose to leave the ridge below the round house later than I should have and in retrospect, as I was examining my fuzzy thinking processes afterwards, I think I handled it that way because I was more relaxed (too relaxed) because I'd decided I had the three hills bailout option.

Roger

micromanager wrote: I think I handled it that way because I was more relaxed (too relaxed) because I'd decided I had the three hills bailout option.
Roger

Hey Roger, My guess is "IF" you are going to use the Three Hills as a bail out you need to make that decision before you head toward the monastery. In other words, i think the three hills would only work if you left from the round house, not from the monastery (UNLESS IT WAS HONKING WEST-then it could carry you across the canyon to reach the The Three Hills)


PC