Sunday 1/4

[irene]

I don't want start a nasty discussion here, but it WAS a collision that happened on sunday between a HG and a PG. A lucky one, very fortunately. I talked only to Rafael, the PG, so I apologize if I am missing something. It looks like the HG (Southside, who already apologized in a message above ) came from Rafael's back and touched his line enough to completely collapse the PG. Luckily, it re-opened after a few SIV-type/acros events, according to Rafael, who was just smiling when he landed at St Maries. (he also had a good frontal collapse at about 30 feet above the ground, due to strong turbulences there, and his glider ended in a giant cactus!). According to Rafael, the 2 pilots did make eye contacts, so they were both aware of each other. But he said that John came from his back, and when he saw him, he turned left, but it was too late.
We all need to remember that HG tend to have a restricted vision above their head ( I am not a HG pilot, so I don't know how bad it is ) and we have to take that into account when we fly.
When I am thermalling with a HG, I really try to ALWAYS know where she or he is, because we turn sharper and tend to climb faster and I know it is difficult for the HG to always see me...I only relax when we separate our paths.
I am also surprised that the HG didn't feel in his glider that he actually hit the PG, but it is bad news, because in some cases, that may mean that the HG may not be able to rescue a PG if the former does not know that the later is in trouble...

I just would like to use this as learning experience. There is absolutely nobody to blame, it was just an accident that nobody wanted to happen. Rafael was totally cool about the all thing and could only laugh about his *adventure*. But I think it is useful for everybody to know that these accidents do happen, even between experienced pilots.

[Southside]

Since Rafael is the one that had to take evasive action I'll defer to his version of the event. But having said that, when I came in behind I was below him following along the same arc. There was still plenty of space between us. Since I didn't know that I clipped one of his lines I'm not sure when or how it happened. The lift was light but steady; it is my opinion that I did not surge up into him. I did lose sight of him briefly (which would mean that he was above me) right before the incident, which happened just as I was completing my first 360 from the lower position. Again, since I don't know exactly when or how the mid air occurred, the following is pure speculation: Rafael didn't notice that after I let him pass through that I immediately dove in below and behind him; because of that, he continued to crank his left turn in the thermal coming out of it directly in front of me just avoiding my left wing, perhaps not even knowing how close it was; he then noticed me within touching distance directly behind him so he cranked his glider even further to the left to avoid having me run up behind and into him; it is at that point that I clipped one of his lines.

John

[Robb]

I was thermaling at the TF Sunday, just on the north side of the power lines. A hg came and joined me and as I turned I lost sight of him. I did the Exorcist thing to look behind me and "OH SHIT!" I was pretty sure it wasn't you-know-who deliberatly trying to hit me again, but it sure got my attention and I turned harder left and the hg broke right and away.

No collision, no harm, no foul. In the LZ Bo was patiently pointing out the effects of wind on the different aircraft in the same thermal (you know, that stuff I should have learned about seven years ago...). I'd never shared a thermal with a hg on a windy day before, so I guess I've never had reason to consider it. Part of the turn I was probably in the 25-30 mph range, while in the other part of the turn (when looking over my sholder) I probably slowed down to 15-20 mph. In hindsight it seems pretty easy to get way too close when wind contributes +/- 50% of your trimspeed.

Southside: I was on a blue/orange/grey UP wing and red jacket. Maybe that was you and me and there was a second incident with Rafael and someone?? Anyway, lesson learned.

Second lesson: A bunch of us wanna-be big-dog XC pilots switched freq's to 144.250 so we wouldn't need to listen to the chatter of pilots staying local. Well, the real big dogs went to Padero and beyond, the rest of us puppies were scattered across St Marys, lower parma, the fire road, and points east. I made it out because I heard the reports and took the scaredy-cat route upwind on speed bar the whole way, but not everybody heard those reports. And they were the lower-airtime or new to the area pilots. We might have reduced the scatter if the first guys on the ground switched freq's back and gave warning to the kids still on launch.

Of course Jim M. would still have taken the tour of Montecieto 'cause he likes finding new LZ's...

[Fast Eddy]

Btw, Tom's site record is 69 miles so he has actually gone further than I 5.

John

Tom flew his longest flight Up into San Fransisqicito Canyon all the way to the GUN CLUB right where the Canyon closes down. He got pinned there that day, and could NOT get up high enough to make the jump into the desert.
That was the same day CRAIG got his New Talon and flew his 100 mile flight out the 14 to ave P and the little foot hills that seperate that part of the valley from " Lake Los Angeles."

Fast EDDY