saturday sb flyin

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Re: saturday sb flyin

Postby Dean S » Wed Feb 04, 2009 12:58 pm

You can deny it if you like Gary, but you did edit your post last night under the "great flying today", making strong, questionable statements about me. You re-edited your post shortly thereafter removing those statements, but not before a few others and myself read it. I copied your comments and was going to use your quotes in a follow-up post, but realized you removed them before I was able to post my reply - you stole my thunder :wink: You and I both know this isn't an issue of being hyper-sensitive, you made it personal with your comments that you have since removed; you drew first blood. Now let's move on to a bigger issue.

The bigger issue seems to be that you feel we are being too harsh with the pilot in question. Others, myself included, feel dealing with this situation requires more that just a little humility. I have to admit, I’ve heard similar scenarios before and thought to myself, "was it really that bad – c’mon", so I can understand your point of view Gary. I have as much empathy as the next person when it comes to flying mistakes, etc. I've been there, you've been there, most of us have been there. Most of us see things regularly that may not be safety conscious. Mother Nature is very forgiving, and we get away with a lot more that we probably should. On the whole, I think SB is pretty loose when it comes to rules and regulations considering how many things we have to navigate around. Generally, when we see actions that may lead to incident we are pretty good as a community at advising the pilot quietly, and that seems to do the job. With this in mind, I can see where the views Bo and I expressed regarding the visiting pilot may have seemed too aggressive for those that did not witness the events. It's very rare that you see a post here on this forum regarding safety issues of a pilot like the one were are discussing now. Shouldn't that tell you something, just maybe this case is exceptional? I believe that most things are just going to happen no matter what you do to try and prevent it, but sometimes – sometimes, you can make a difference. I also think if you look at the statistics closely, you’ll find that the amount of visiting pilots that end up in the bushes far outweigh how many locals do, if you consider the amount of flights between the two. We just seem to remember when our friends pound in a little more.

Once again here are the facts. Bo and I witnessed an out-of-town pilot flying repeatedly in an unsafe manner that could easily result in an impact with the ground. In the LZ this pilot was strongly advised not to continue this style of flying while in SB. He was also told he needed to have a 2-way radio while flying in SB, which he didn't have. On his very next flight this pilot launched from Skyport, did two or three S-turns in front of launch, then made an attempt to circle very close to the terrain in front of launch which resulted in an impact; and not a mild one at that. This was witnessed by two people. To top it off, once again he wasn't flying with a 2-way radio. He’s an experienced pilot, and he didn’t regard or respect what was asked of him by a local instructor, and now he’d like some help out of the bushes, which was done graciously by Jim Maddox. I’ll admit, I’m a little more fired up about this situation because I witnessed this guy being warned and I feel this guy just doesn’t give a sh*t. I may feel differently about this situation in a couple days, who knows…

What I don’t understand Gary, is why it’s more important for you to defend a pilot that you don’t know, and whose actions you didn’t see, rather than consider that the situation may need some special attention. Is this topic too close to home for you? Do you feel you were unjustly dealt with in a similar situation here in SB and this topic is hitting a raw nerve? Where’s the support man!

This is getting ridiculous, somebody punch me :wink: I’m tired of writing. I think I’m getting Carpal Tunnel syndrome…
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Re: saturday sb flyin

Postby gary begley » Wed Feb 04, 2009 2:54 pm

are you sure your tired...that was a long :lol: .Trust me Dean,moved things around and changed words so as to not be misundestood,but happen anyway,such is life...some will understand,others will not get it, just like when you tell someone they are doing something wrong.



Is this topic too close to home for you? Do you feel you were unjustly dealt with in a similar situation here in SB and this topic is hitting a raw nerve? Where’s the support man!
:lol: Thats funny ! Trust me...all is good not hyper sensitive :wink:
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Re: saturday sb flyin

Postby flyindiver » Wed Feb 04, 2009 3:13 pm

marge did you get your wing out yet? where did you launch from?
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Re: saturday sb flyin

Postby drwheeler » Wed Feb 04, 2009 6:52 pm

This post sounds more like the stuff that goes on at Tiger. Now I can move down there and fit in. :twisted:
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Re: saturday sb flyin

Postby andy dainsberg » Wed Feb 04, 2009 7:02 pm

whoops! i thought u guys were talking about the symantics of dean's "buzzing" and sb flying protocol. but instead your argument revolves around a "pilot in question." but you still are both nice guys! i'll buzz off now!
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Re: saturday sb flyin

Postby gary begley » Wed Feb 04, 2009 7:23 pm

Allow me to clarify Dean:

In regards to the "deleted" post, my intention was to copy and paste it in this page, where the quote originated...it would not copy & paste, so I abbreviated my thoughts. I have no problem with it being seen and there was no hiding of it...being that you have a copy of it saved, feel free to post it, so my thoughts can be seen in entirety.

In essence, the deleted quote was attempting to state:
1. many valid points have been made
2. yes, the erratic non-local pilot should be spoken with (as with any pilot that are putting others at risk)
3. santa barbara is a great place to fly, do more regulations and rules need to be implemented? I think not, where does one draw the line? Shit will always happen.
4. the quote was meant as an example of how we should hold ourselves to the same standards that we hold others...in both words, action and flying. To me, that is leadership at its finest.

My words are not to break balls, or slam anyone, but to open up dialogue and make us all think a bit. Flying is an adventure sport and many people are flying without realizing the consequences. It is a fragile balance of rules, regulations and personal accountability. It can just as easily be the fool, expert, local or non-local that can ruin our day, get hurt or close our site down.
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Re: saturday sb flyin

Postby andy » Wed Feb 04, 2009 7:37 pm

Yea I would agree that you both are good guys too. It is too bad that we have to talk about things like this. I agree with Gary on some level.I wish people would just chill and let folks do what they want to. The example that comes to mind is Animal House, things used to be like that but they aren't anymore! And so in a high density,(maybe not for paragliders), area there has to be some sort of rule. A personal example I had concerned taking my dog on the beach in Carp., I got a warning, and was told if it happened again I would get cited. Now this was after dark in the off season and I was about the only person on the beach. It kind of pissed me off, why was the park ranger worried about me, I took care of my dogs poop, and kept them under control, and there was no one there.

Then I got thinking if all the folks with all kinds of dogs, that didn't look after them etc, etc, were allowed to let them run the beach, the beach wouldn't be a very nice place to be. And I understood the rangers need to treat everybody equal, and enforce the CODE. Even though it was me, and you know sometimes I think I'm special because I usually follow the rules. But I wasn't following the rule there, I was just trying to get away with something.

Now if everybody just tried to get away with breaking the rules, especially in the sensitive SB flying areas, and that means flying like a p2 in p3 conditions, without a radio, or whatever, we need to be he ranger and control it before it becomes a problem for everyone. What I envision if we had the kind of good natured anarchy that Gary would like to see, it wouldn't be long until the self governance afforded to us by USHPA rules would be given to a government run "park ranger" that would limit our flying, cost us a lot more money, and take a lot of our current freedoms away. So lets keep enforcing our rules, and stop getting so bent when the rules are enforced, we've really got it good as it is.

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Re: saturday sb flyin

Postby gary begley » Wed Feb 04, 2009 9:16 pm

I am not sure what has led people to think or assume that I dont believe rules have their place? Clearly they do, all i was saying is that no matter how many rules you have, people are people and will make mistakes. Do I think that setting more regulations in place will help that, nope. In all adventure sports, people will die, and people will get hurt and accidents will happen by those who follow the rules and by those who dont.
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Re: saturday sb flyin

Postby Dean S » Thu Feb 05, 2009 7:39 am

Unbelievable! I woke up this morning really hoping we had put an end to this perpetual debate, but I see 6 or 7 more posts going in the same old circles. Either this thread continues in a constructive way, with real ways that we can deal with situations like the one being debated, or let’s just drop it. No more finger pointing, sarcasm, defensive posturing, etc…enough

Here’s what it comes down to. A lot of people have worked very hard in the past, and the present, dealing with the city of SB allowing us the privilege of flying in this amazing place. We are definitely enjoying the fruits of their labor. Sometimes we see UNIQUE situations that could threaten those privileges, and we all have a choice whether to intervene and support the continuing effort to preserve our sites – or not, it really is that simple.

So far Bob Ramey is the only one that has offered some possible suggestions to help minimize situations like the one in question in the future. I was hoping to see more input along these lines. If not, we might as well drop this and move on.
Last edited by Dean S on Thu Feb 05, 2009 1:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: saturday sb flyin

Postby Parma Chris » Thu Feb 05, 2009 8:26 am

"FlynSB"
My YouTube - http://www.youtube.com/user/flynsb
My Picasa Pics --> http://picasaweb.google.com/FlynSB
Where I learned to FLY! --> http://eagleparagliding.com/
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